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navydave
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:58 pm  Reply with quote
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[quote="dmarquis"]You won't hear any derision (sp) from me. 30 years ago people were saying the same thing about today's classics. For me, if you like to ride a scooter and are cool sabout it, that's cool with me. If you ride a classic with me, and break down, I will prolly give ya a little ribbing, but I expect it back when it's my turn. :-)

Dave

the problem is what if you are both a rocker and a mod?????
I'm confused..............
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dmarquis
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:35 pm  Reply with quote
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So Derrick, JUST what IS your SCOOTERING view? You have yet to say anything really about it, just that it is different from everyone elses. Please let it out of the closet.

Dave
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P125 Josh
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:38 pm  Reply with quote
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Interesting discussion. I think that it's pretty cool that there is even enough interest in scooters to debate subgroups.
When I was growing up it was just a matter of plastic versus metal. There were no good new scooters (1990). If it was metal it was older and cool, if it was plastic it wasn't ideal.
I bought my Vespa from an older gentleman in my hometown when I was a teenager. I was all ready to buy it but my Dad wouldn't let me get it until I found a parts source. Fortunately for me Scooterworks opened their first shop two weeks before. I rode 5 years before seeing another Vespa in person. Scooterworks has pretty much ridden the crest of the scooter revival in our country. I consider it flattering that the Stella is modeled after a great bike and that Phil McCaleb had enough insight to foresee the growing popularity in this stuff. I'm glad I own the genuine article, but I think almost all scooters are cool in some way. My thought is that if you don't like what they have done with the Stella you shouldn't do business with Scooterworks or any company who orders through them. I think what needs to be taken into account is that if it weren't for the newer bikes there probably wouldn't even be a place for us to discuss this right now. If there were no Stellas or new Vespas, you have to admit, the annual rally would be awfully small. If people with certain bikes don't want to ride with other people I can understand. I rode solo for 15 years and it was still fun, just not as fun.

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dmarquis
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:42 pm  Reply with quote
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EvilScooterKitty wrote:

intertersting "hunting" comparison to be made.

I hunt pheasants with my Grandfather's shotgun. It has two barrels and gives me two shots, all the time, under just about any conditions. It's MUCH easier to maintain than a pump or automatic shotgun. It has stood the test of time and still does the job it was intended to do about 100 years after it was manufactured. In my opinion, it is considerably better looking than a "modern" shotgun. It accomplishes to same task as a modern gun (BOOM, bird falls from the sky, I eat dinner). It takes a bit more skill to use effectively than a modern gun. Again, just my opinion, but I think it's much more enjoyable to hunt with this old gun, it's not only "simpler" it's a much more satisfying experience on a fundamental level. I use my vintage gun quite a bit and, with any luck, the next generation of my family will also use it.

I don't have an issud hunting with people who use modern automatic shotguns AS LONG AS THEY ARE GOOD HUNTERS and people I enjoy being with. It's about the bird, not the gun.


I agree with you a 100%. If you and I decide to go out hunting, you with your gun and I take mine, it wouldn't be cool for me to say mine is better, or that yours is better. We can say that about certain details about each gun, but the overall function is the same..... Now say that we go out and you have a "blast" with your side arm and go home....what is wrong with that?

Dave
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dmarquis
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:45 pm  Reply with quote
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That's cool Josh. I am glad that you made it back to the TNR after last years rally.


Dave
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P125 Josh
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:05 pm  Reply with quote
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Hey Dave.
Looking forward to the next group ride.
Josh

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Harvey
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:56 pm  Reply with quote
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Derrick wrote:
Ah!!!

Those who KNOW choose an SS180!


Evilscooterkitty, obviously, "good hunters" goes without saying but "people I enjoy being with" is KEY. I agree completely. However, in a different way. My experience has been that "modern" scooter riders and "vintage" scooter riders have very LITTLE in common. They DO NOT MIX. Don't assume that they do. I think the notion that we all are tied together by our love of scootering is naive. Sure, if you have just bought a new scooter and feel a strong connection to it you would assume that connection is the same as a vintage scooter rider has with his vintage scooter. It most likely is NOT THE SAME. Vintage riders have a different perspective on scootering. I know most newbies will disagree. This is a MAJOR difference. I have seen it over and over again. It is very tiring. This is why I wanted to keep the scooter community DIVIDED. Unfortunately, some people don't understand and think we should be united. Of course IMO, this is mostly newbie modern scooter riders. The vintage riding community is now a smaller share of the scooter riding community as a whole and has been over run by newbie riders. This created the tension and frustration that pops up. I had hoped that we could agree to go our separate ways but the people on the "united" front can't get over their ideological goals and feel compelled to "correct" the dividers. I would like to just agree to disagree but every month a new "uniter" shows up and starts curbing discussion again. Blah. Blah...

I'm OK now. You can let me out of my cage. I promise I won't hurt any one. Really!


With all due respect, I fail to care about division or togetherness. I like to ride and I don't give a shit what as long as it has two wheels and an engine. If people are okay with riding with me I'm ok riding with them as long as they're safe riders. At this moment there are four of the five bikes my wife and I own, in our garage.

I've got a Virago I bought new in 87, a Harely I bought new in 93, there's my wife's 83 Nighthawk and two Vespas. The 1964 GL and the LX 150. Can I fix em if they break? Every one.

I like what I like. Other people like what they like. The only division I care about is the people who want to ride like fools being somewhere else than where I am when I'm riding. Like on another street going some other direction.

The comment about naivete is naive in itself. Over twenty years street riding has taught me I can ride with any group that accepts me regardless of the bike I'm on. And vice versa. Its a matter of tolerance and mutual respect. Take either out of the mix and you have the divisions you seem most interested in. If its about the bike instead of the ride, its also about a copout. Herd mentality. As a Harley owner and rider, I know about this particular little head game through seeing herd mentality all my life. Used to be you bought a Harley because it was an American made machine. You were helping to pay the wages of your fellow Americans. Nowadays its about being the badass whose secret is he's really a dentist. Packing his beloved Harley onto a pickup or into a trailer and riding in the air conditioning to Sturgis to play dress-up for a few days. I think they pay extra for the sneer.

Again, the division [here] is one group really is in it for the ride and the other's intent is to rpesent an "image". Riders, enthusiasts, see beyond the bikes for the purpose they were made for; the ride.

I never cared for herd mentality. That kind of thinking usually ends in a stampede off a cliff. Why? Because herd mentality has a shelf life. The group whose really a herd just keeps getting smaller and smaller. Natural attrition shrinks the good ol' boys until the remaining few are practically afraid to ride with the new riders. They won't say it, but they were so folded into the earlier core group that they just complain, failing to realize that before them, another core group labeled them the same way they're labeling the latest generation of riders.

Derrick, people like me have no qualms about riding with guys like you. The fact is if you're going to stay with a club beyond the generational shelf life, eventually you're going to have to tolerate the changes if this club is going to stay alive. When those changes happen is anybody's guess. But I'll tell you this; the EPA mandating out the sales of new two strokes is exactly why I have that new LX. Its a Vespa. As the company moves into a new era of bikes, I have no problem moving along with them to a degree.

I like the vintage. Like the new stuff too. Seems the company still has its main goals pretty well attended to. Build bikes that carry the heritage and at the same time move with the times.

Harv
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dmarquis
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:12 pm  Reply with quote
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Well said. Harv, if you have time, your welcome on the TNR, it's about the ride.

Dave
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Harvey
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:35 pm  Reply with quote
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dmarquis wrote:
Well said. Harv, if you have time, your welcome on the TNR, it's about the ride.

Dave


I'm sure going to try. I think I might be able to swing it. BUT... I also don't want to influence the participation (or lack thereof) of other riders who would rather have this be a classic focussed club either.

Let's play this by ear. I know there's not much time to decide but I would like to see if and how Derrick responds to what I had to say. I don't want to be the reason anyone else chooses to ride less, or omit riding altogether with the club.

Thanks for the kind words.

Harv
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Ritchie
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:45 pm  Reply with quote
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It seems like people are missing the point,especially Dave.I really don't know who the fuck you think you are Dave.Cool,you ride a scooter,we're all really fucking impressed!You drove to Denver and back,we're all fucking impressed!What I'm not impressed with is the fact that you come onto this here website and make snide remarks about the people who have kept the scooter scene alive and kicking in Minneapolis long before you or I showed up.OH,and most of them just happen to ride vintage bikes.If nothing else,have respect for these people.Don't show up out of the blue and try too hard to make yourself out to be something your not.
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dmarquis
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:54 pm  Reply with quote
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Just come on out. I can pretty much bet money that you will almost never see a "Regular" on the TNR. If things keep gong like the last 2 weeks you will see about 12-19 scooterist having fun on many, many types of scoots. It is really about the ride and chatting and coffee afterwards. It is set up in such a way that people can come to as many rides as they wish, or not wish.

We welcome anyone on a scooter.

Dave
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Derrick
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:59 pm  Reply with quote
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Dave,
Most vintage scooter riders have to do MAJOR work on their scooters. They become very aware of how their scooters work and discuss it in fine detail. They enjoy the challenge of keeping them going. They appreciate their heritage, study it and like to discuss it in detail. They enjoy the struggles and rewards of riding a scooter that is 30 plus years old. They LIVE with a vintage scooter. It becomes part of their life. They love to RIDE but love THE SCOOTER just as much. They don't mind too much if they get stranded. They love the STYLE and functional simplicity of vintage scooter's design. Vintage scooters are rare. They are not available at a local dealer. Vintage scooters are exclusive. It takes a unique person to stick it out with a vintage scooter. Many people come and go but the hard core stay. Riding a new twist and go is NOT THE SAME. If you don't get that, you are hopelessly lost. I don't mind if you ride a new TnG and LIKE vintage scooters but don't expect to be included in vintage scooter events just because you have a scooter. Same gos for Stella owners. Buying a new Stella is not the same as owning a vintage scooter. Most new scooter riders can't possibly understand what it is like to ride/own a vintage scooter. Many don't want an old scooter that breaks down or needs work. Many can't work on anything mechanical. Many would like a vintage scooter but should stay away from them. Some new scooter riders hate old scooters. Maxi scooter riders are another totally different group all together. Yes, a few people can bridge all scooter groups but typically only in a shallow way. All this stuff is pretty obvious to the hard core old school vintage scooter riders. Having to explain it only gos to show that many people don't get it. There are exclusive clubs everywhere and in every field. Most of them are perfectly fine and are not seen as "discriminatory". Don't get all bent out of shape about it. It is NOT about what scooter is better. It is NOT about the OVERALL FUNCTION of a scooter. People that say that are clueless and should not be acknowledged.

P125 Josh,
I'm not saying I don't like the Stella. I'm just saying it is not the same as a vintage scooter. I don't really get why you think you should not buy vintage scooter parts from Scooterworks if you don't like the Stella. IMO that is lame logic. (yes, I know Genuine is owned by SW - so what?) Also, the Regulars scooter club and Jeremy's "Minnescoota" bulletin board was started as a VINTAGE scooter board and had NOTHING to do with "the newer bikes". Sorry, this board is not dependant on new scooterists! Lastly, I never thought a BIGGER Rally was a good thing. The Rally was WAY better when it was smaller and more defined. Sorry, you rode solo for 15 years. I'm supprised I didn't meet you years ago. The Regulars vintage scooter club has been around at least that long.
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Derrick
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:04 pm  Reply with quote
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Dave,

Hello! We don't want to do the TNR. Get it?

As I said before. Just because we don't ride with you does not mean we don't ride.

Man, it's like talking to a rock.
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Derrick
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:13 pm  Reply with quote
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Sorry Harvey, I have no idea what you are talking about.
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chris
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:18 pm  Reply with quote
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Richie is my new best friend and Derrick I love you as I have for many many years.

Chris

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