minnescoota.com Forum Index
Author Message
<  General Scootering  ~  Time Keeping Scooter Enduro
Dynauld
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:43 am  Reply with quote
Training


Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 20

Hey all

As most folks here really don't know who I am yet, (count your blessings if you don't know me yet) I'm curious what type of things like to do for fun with their scooters. Oh my god you are sick for thinking that!!! But I did too, so we are off to a good start.

Has anyone around here tried to create a scooter enduro? I think this would be a really fun way to see a lot of the cities and most likely get mind-numbingly lost at the same time.

For those that are unfimiliar with Timing Enduro, I'm clipping in below part of the Wikipedia definition of a Motorcycle enduro.

So, who might be interested helping me try to develop something like this for next season?

Time-Keeping Enduros
Although the term Enduro often applies to any type of long-distance, off-road motorcycle races, it's true technical definition usually refers to a set of rules, varying by the events' governing body, that specify exactly when a rider should arrive at certain pre-defined locations along a prescribed route. The object of the event is to arrive at those locations exactly per the defined schedule, with early or late arrivals resulting in penalties to the riders' scores. This sort of event is not technically a Race, but rather it is a Time Keeping event.

In a true Enduro timekeeping event, riders leave together in groups called "rows," and each row starts on a certain minute. For example, if in a particular Enduro the first row leaves at 8AM, and a certain rider's row is scheduled to leave at 08:20, then the event's Key Time is 08:00 and every rider on Row 20 (usually 4 riders per row) has as his/her minute 20, because his/her start time will be 08:20. To be "on his/her minute," a rider must arrive at certain non-disclosed locations known as checkpoints along the route at the prescribed time, which is the prescribed time for Row 1 plus 20 minutes. There are different types of checkpoints, such as known checks, secret checks, emergency checks, start checks, and finish checks, and points are calculated differently depending on how late or early a rider arrives at each type of check. For example, emergency checks are used to break scoring ties and points are calculated depending on the number of seconds that a rider is early or late, where as in a standard secret check, points are calculated based on the number of minutes that a rider is early or late.

There are very specific rules governing where race-sponsors may place checks, and what types. The rules usually refer to a distance from previous checks, or minimum distances for certain stops such as fuel stops. The careful placement of checks to confuse riders is part of the appeal to Enduro enthusiasts. A good Enduro rider is as familiar with the rules and possibilities as the race organizers, and therefore can predict where checks may or may not be, and rides accordingly to ensure that he/she arrives at the next check as close to his scheduled minute as possible.

Riders use "Roll Charts" (which are provided by the race organizers) to guide them along the course. A roll chart is a small paper scroll (2-3 inches, 10-15cm wide) that has all of the turns and known checkpoints listed. As the rider traverses the route, he/she advances his roll chart in sequence with the mileage listed on the odometer, and uses the markings on the chart and the trail to both navigate the course and to "stay on his minute." Not all checks are on the roll-chart, though. For example Secret Checkpoints are those which help to create scoring differentiation between riders by adding unpredictability to the route. They are called "secret" because they are unknown to the riders until they come upon them, as they don't exist on the roll-chart.

In recent years, Enduro Computers have become popular with more serious riders. Enduro Computers are small instruments that are attached to the bike's handlebars and that have a sensor/sender/magnet combination that calculates revolutions of the front wheel and sends the data to the computer. Once the roll-chart data have been entered, the Enduro Computer tells the rider a variety of information to remove the guesswork from roll-chart reading. Enduro Computers come pre-programmed with the Enduro rules (depending on which rules are being used), and once programmed with the roll-chart of a particular event, can tell the rider when to expect an upcoming unknown check, speed averages, how much faster or slower he/she must ride to "get back on his/her minute," distance travelled, speed, etc... Using an Enduro Computer removes the guesswork from Enduro riding, and by using one, the mental part of the Enduro competition is greatly reduced. Many people have likened Enduro Computers to cheating, while others consider them to be boons to the sport. Either way, using an Enduro Computer absolves the rider from having to learn the specifics of the rules, all of the possible circumstances that could be encountered during a race, etc... Some people consider that to be a bad thing, and most top riders use both a standard roll chart (which they know how to use very well) and an Enduro Computer, just in case the computer somehow breaks during an event.

Throughout a day there will also be allocated periods for refuelling and servicing the machine. Penalties apply for not meeting defined times or for outside-assistance when not permitted.

A world championship course must be at least 200 km and a maximum of 30% of its length can be on asphalt roads. American Motorcycle Association rules governing course length and other course variables (i.e. speed average changes, terrain types, etc...) are different, and the rules of the regional sanctioning body can also affect the ultimate composition of an Enduro course.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
nate
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:55 am  Reply with quote
Licensed


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 587
Location: Best Saint Paul

http://scootercannonball.com/

There's Jersey to Orange, CA. Close?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message   Visit poster's website AIM Address
P125 Josh
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:01 pm  Reply with quote
Training


Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 27
Location: St Paul

Sounds really cool.

Josh

_________________
1979 P125x
1964 VNB
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message   Visit poster's website
Kevin K
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:40 pm  Reply with quote
Licensed


Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 783
Location: Brooklyn Park

"Scooter Enduro" is also referred to as timed Road Rallies. the I-Cycle Derby is one such example.

This would be a lot of fun. maybe we could work it into next year's non-rally.
-K

_________________
Oh yes I did
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message [ Hidden ]
nate
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:19 pm  Reply with quote
Licensed


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 587
Location: Best Saint Paul

Wait, they changed it on me, and I can't read a map.

Sorry, from Oregon to Orange, NJ. (They went E->W last year.)

Same theory, though. Definitely hardcore.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message   Visit poster's website AIM Address
some_dude
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:28 pm  Reply with quote
Licensed


Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Posts: 300
Location: NE Minneapolis

Sounds similar to TSD rallies I've done in cars. The ones we've done require a co-pilot doing all the math & navigation required to arrive at the checkpoints on time. And an accurate odometer/trip computer.

How is this done on a bike?

_________________
All Genghis Khan Scooter Club
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message [ Hidden ]
Dynauld
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:58 pm  Reply with quote
Training


Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 20

It is extremely similar to TSD rally, ( I race as a navigator in the US Performance Rally championships ) except no CAS or would that be SAS for Scooter Average Speed? We could throw that in. I figure if we are doing it for the first time, we might as well make it grey.

We would produce a roller like what is used in most motorcycle events, think roughly the same thing but small and on a scroll that can be mounted on your handle bars.

My first thought is this for instructions

Start checkpoint
CAS 25mph
d 0.72 Left turn
S 30mph 3 minutes
turn right
d .09 stop CAS 5mph
Checkpoint 1a Time

I have several friends that have created TSD events, I'm sure we could utilized theirs as a quick way to see if we can make this work.

_________________
Mr. McGuire: I want to say one word to you, just one word. Are you listening?
Benjamin: Yes, I am.
Mr. McGuire: Plastics.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
some_dude
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:01 pm  Reply with quote
Licensed


Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Posts: 300
Location: NE Minneapolis

So, you would provide the Checkpoint time? I've always had to determine that, hence the need for math.

_________________
All Genghis Khan Scooter Club
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message [ Hidden ]
Matty
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:10 pm  Reply with quote
Licensed


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 1323
Location: MPLS

Each year I keep saying I'll do a TT but never follow though. But if I did it I'd be a jerk and only allow geared scooters.*

*except Plurimatics

_________________
-Matt
-++-you can't spell jackass with out JKSC-++-
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message   Visit poster's website
pemkt
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:20 pm  Reply with quote
Permit


Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 94
Location: Eau Claire, WI

Sounds interesting. I'm also only a "noob" and not really from the area but if its after June 1 or so I'd be in.

-Tom in Eau Claire
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
navydave
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:18 pm  Reply with quote
Training


Joined: 24 Jun 2006
Posts: 44
Location: Inver Grove Heights

would that mean we would have to put on side cars for the navigator????
I read the timed rally in the last issue of MMM and it sounded fun
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message [ Hidden ]
Dynauld
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:21 pm  Reply with quote
Training


Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 20

I'd like to try to build a test enduro for this spring, and if that goes well, expand it out and invite all of those people that have vintage and/ or geared scooters after that... laugh!!! Sorry, I have to take a shot when ever I get a chance.

Here are a couple of links that are very good at examples.

http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcdirt/trailrider/2time1.html

http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcdirt/trailrider/3time2.html


I'll be at TNR tonight if anyone wants to talk about it.

Jeff

_________________
Mr. McGuire: I want to say one word to you, just one word. Are you listening?
Benjamin: Yes, I am.
Mr. McGuire: Plastics.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
fnirt
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:03 pm  Reply with quote
Licensed


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 164
Location: Minneapolis

We did one of these (citadel bbs community) when I was in High School with something like a dozen or more vehicles. Much fun!

Ours, though, didn't have a described route, but a set of clues. You had to guess the next destination, and if you were stumped you could open an envelope and get the answer (losing points in the process) -- the final goal was a big picnic, and it was really fun. We had four people in our car and at times we needed all four for navigating, clues, driving, etc. Likely not easily done on a scoot..

_________________
-Robert Craig

Tuesday Night Ride: http://www.fnirt.com/tnr
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message [ Hidden ] Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
433
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:23 pm  Reply with quote
Licensed


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 702
Location: Minneapolis

fnirt wrote:
We did one of these (citadel bbs community)


Citadel? Which ones were you on?

_________________
jfs/433
Super Secret Elite Scooter Club (membership: 1)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message [ Hidden ] Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
Kevin K
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:58 pm  Reply with quote
Licensed


Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 783
Location: Brooklyn Park

navydave wrote:
would that mean we would have to put on side cars for the navigator????
I read the timed rally in the last issue of MMM and it sounded fun

Timed rally? If you're referring to the lastest issue of MMM, that article is about the Minnesota 1000. Waaaaaay different than what they're talking about here. MN1K is more like a 24 hour scavenger hunt.

Just settin' the record straight.
-K

_________________
Oh yes I did
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message [ Hidden ]
Display posts from previous:   
All times are GMT - 6 Hours

View next topic
View previous topic
Page 1 of 2
Goto page 1, 2  Next
minnescoota.com Forum Index  ~  General Scootering

Post new topic   Reply to topic


 
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB and NoseBleed v1.09