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Matty
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:47 pm  Reply with quote
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Derrick wrote:
I'm NOT a fan of Piaggio's later products. (Post 1973) They went down hill fast!.


What my '74 Super isn't good enough for you? or Trish '76 V90? or my '78 P200? Elitist snob!!

That's it, I'm forming the 'That 70's Scooter Club'

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morgan
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:44 pm  Reply with quote
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Ha! God knows I love my '77, but really, the electrical systems on the 70's bikes royally sucked. It works much better not that it's wired like a 60's bike...

And my only beef with the new vespas is the cost. They're nice bikes, and I'm not trying to dis folks who bought one (I'm really tempted by that big GT as a matter of fact!). But my issue is that the original "scooter concept", as I understood it, was reliable, stylish, LOW COST transportation for "the masses": Workers, students, a middle class family's second "car", or a lower class family's only transportation, etc.

The new Vespas are priced at that "expensive toy" range instead of a "people's vehicle" range.

In that light, the Bajaj and Stella are really more in keeping with the philosophy behind the original Vespas than the new Vespas are. And so are Kymkos, Yamahas, etc. Good values, good bikes.

Just my 2.
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jsyx
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:48 pm  Reply with quote
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NATE- i sincerely appreciate yer insight. I know a lot of times it's sarcastic, but well informed and in good fun. thanks for yer honesty. I think you were almost 'complimentary' in the last paragraph but maybe it was heavily veiled criticism. either way, right on. sorry if i get on yer case.

DERRICK- same thing goes. You quite obviously know yer shit and John Barber says you're o.k. I'm glad you post here and help people understand what we put between our legs all the time. As for me, please keep it coming. Maybe i should've bought a vespa. Maybe I would have been too scared to take it apart if it was a really nice, classic scooter. Either way no regrets. Next i want a Lambretta, but i wouldn't mind a vintage vespa racer either???

DAVE- dude, i just got back from duluth...you think i'm intimidated by winter? I'm from Minnesota for chrissakes!!! 35 degrees and over with relatively dry roads and i'm down. Besides, my bike likes winter that's why it sleeps outside all year.

I try not to offend, only open a dialouge.
THNX DUDES.

p.s.stellaspeedrules!!!!!(he he)

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dmarquis
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:53 pm  Reply with quote
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jsyx wrote:

DAVE- dude, i just got back from duluth...you think i'm intimidated by winter? I'm from Minnesota for chrissakes!!! 35 degrees and over with relatively dry roads and i'm down. Besides, my bike likes winter that's why it sleeps outside all year.

I try not to offend, only open a dialouge.
THNX DUDES.

p.s.stellaspeedrules!!!!!(he he)


That's cool and I am down wit that. Maybe we should get more people hooked on stellaspeed.com..... :-)

Dave
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Derrick
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 6:10 pm  Reply with quote
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Morgan is right on.

In the late 60's our wonderful government (the DOT) started requiring goofy things like brake lights that work when the engine is off and in 1974 they started requiring blinkers on 2 wheeled motor vehicles. Not that blinkers are bad but the way the DOT did things was very messed up.

For example: lobbyists from G.E. got the legislators to write a law requiring sealed beam headlights that are adjustable from the front of the vehicle. So we got those crappy sealed beam head lights on our Vespars and Servetas. (Scooterworks and WCLW are making money selling everyone the eurpean conversions kits now) That's also why we had those stupid looking sealed beams on are cars when the europeans got the nicely stylised head lights on their cars. Why did G.E. do it? It ensured they would sell a shit load of sealed beam headlights in the U.S.

How about the super UGLY Ducati tail lights that are on the late 70's Vespars and Servetas? Ya, you guessed it - the DOT. The tail lights of scooters and motorcycles had to be DOT approved. So it cost the manufacturers money for every different tail light they wanted to get approved for sale in the U.S.. Thus, one UGLY tail light on all models! YA!

Blinkers are a good thing but the Italians manufacturers had had enough of this B.S. by 1974. Plus their sales in the U.S. were dropping. So they slapped the electrical system together as cheaply as possible. Most did not work when they were new. I have done many 12 volt conversions on 70's scooters because the systems were SO CRAPPY.

Is wasn't until the P series came out in the late 70's that Vespar had it figured out.

Also, after 1973 Vespar changed all their badging to BLOCK STYLE. Sorry, but it is UGLY. Unless your into UGLY then it's cool.

Finally, I have never be a fan of the "NOUVO" styling on the P series. It is very hard to improve the styling of the 60's models. Unless your into UGLY then it's cool. Even the new Vespars don't come close to the iconic image of the 60's vespar. Not to mention the simplistic beauty of the 60's model designs.

IMO, this is how and why Vespars went down hill.
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Tom Lindsay
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:38 am  Reply with quote
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Okay, I'm a dad, a computer guy, and a European Historian, so I'm always willing to admit that I'm not cool and that I don't know what the hell is going on. So in that light,

Why are y'all calling them vespars? I'm sure I'm out of the loop here, but unless I've been transplanted to Boston, I'm pretty sure there shouldn't be an "r" in there...

And, perhaps *because* of my first sentence above, I happen to think the P series looks awesome. Sure, not *sexy* in the way the 60s bikes were sexy, but awesome in a cool retro way. Of course I ride a Stella and one never thinks one's own baby is ugly, so maybe that's my bias. And, I grew up thinking the '84 Corvette, the De Lorean, and other angular beasts of the late 1970s and early 1980s were beautiful.

Curves are sexy and timeless; but curves with angles are *futuristic* according to 1970s design, and that gives them great retro appeal.

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Tom Lindsay
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 8:00 am  Reply with quote
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Oh, and a couple more acronyms for y'all:

S.M.O.K.E. - Standard Motor Oil Kills Emissions

and

K.A.B.O.O.M. - Keep Around a Bottle Of Oil Man!

Reading the silly acronyms earlier made me think of Naked Gun...

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morgan
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 8:54 am  Reply with quote
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it's all a matter of taste. to me, the p series is a bit like the new volks beetle, an updated version of an older design. the new beetles are cute, but to my taste not as cute as the original beetles. again, just my taste. in a way, the p series was a "futurized for the 80's" version of a design that was originally "futuristic" by 1960's (or even 1940's, if you want to go to the beginning) standards.

the 70's non-P series bikes; sprint/rally/super, were "in-between" the classic 60's bikes and the P series design-wise. and IMO, "in-between" in a beauty contest as well.

but P's (and Stellas) are such great "work horse" scooters. in good working order, they're reliable, tough and fast, and since there's so darn many of them, you don't have to be "precious" with them like you would a perfect GS or something. my old girlfriend had a '81 P200 that I rode a lot, I loved that bike, but a '64-'65 GS160 is way, way prettier.

but just IMO! I really like all the old Vespars.

BTW, Derrick, I think, would be the expert here in "Vespar" and "Mr. Vespar" lore, but as far as I know, "vespar" is a just a silly way of saying "vespa" like if you said it with a cartoon cowboy accent. It also is the kind of thing you see in ads for vespas for sale from owners who don't really know what they've got. I started using it because folks were using it on the BBS. It's fun to say.

And for awhile, Derrick was posting here (or i guess at the old BBS) as "Mr. Vespar", wasn't he? You'll have to ask him about that...
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Matty
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:25 am  Reply with quote
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jsyx wrote:
that is a sweet scoot. If I had a garage, IT would be a done deal (still not convinced that it's not)...


You don't need a garage just park it inside! Check out this video (sorry I couldn't find a direct link)

Go here http://www.millencolin.com/
hit media
then videos
then select the video for Fox

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jsyx
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:27 am  Reply with quote
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this thread is becoming an excellent history lesson.
i just ordered an acorn style tail light to replace the 'o3 stella eyesore...american DOT standard,,blech. At least they started putting a little chrome around the seal the next couple of years. still big and clunky, and ugly...oh well.

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morgan
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:38 am  Reply with quote
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the '03 stella taillite is gorgeous compared to the nasty motorcycle taillites they forced piaggio to put on the 70's and 80's bikes. yuck! i, too, took that sh*t off and put an acorn-style lite on mine the second season had it...

...so much better...

did you order one of the new, cast pot-metal ones? or a plastic repro? I got the plastic repro now, but i used to have a real '64 acorn lite, but that got wrecked... another story... i'd like to get a new metal one, but sheesh are they xpensive!

are you the josh that works with John and Steph?

yo
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Tom Lindsay
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:46 am  Reply with quote
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Matt,
That's a great video clip! Now if only I could get the music in mp3 format...

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Derrick
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:07 am  Reply with quote
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Sorry jsyx.

The Stella tail light IS the european version. I think it fits the bike very well. The acorn style will look very out of place on a Stella IMHO. You definitly need a vintage bike if you start tryng to make your Stella look like one. I know people will say " Oh, it's HIS scooter and he should do what ever he likes and that's what scooters are all about, making yours unique and custom and stuff. Blah blah."

Thankfully, Reagan ditched the stupid law that required sealed beams and "approved" tail lights. Now we get the good stuff.
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Egan
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:23 am  Reply with quote
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Sorry but I disagree, the Stella has a mutant style more modern P style, I think. I got a "european" style that is a little different (more sloped,curvy,etc). Not really different but kinda.
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jsyx
PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:16 am  Reply with quote
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exactly!! Egan!!! mutant is the word!! i got friggin old and new. and yes derrick... ITS MINE!!! an amalgamation of ignorance and creativity!!
sorry about the semantic mistake..always learning from you.
Morgan, yes. I believe we met at the rally. I will say hi to them fer you.
oh yeah, and ASC sells metal ones. i got on one of their ebay closeouts. only $26.

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