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Brad
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:44 pm  Reply with quote
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Motor Scooters and Mopeds are authorized to park in bike rack areas.
Motorcycles are prohibited from parking in bike rack areas. This will
be monitored so your compliance is appreciated.

Facilities Management


Last edited by Brad on Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Tom Lindsay
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:33 pm  Reply with quote
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It explicitly says, "Motor scooters and mopeds"? How the hell were they convinced of that? That rocks!

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Brad
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:00 pm  Reply with quote
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yes that was the exact wording. you got to love a green workforce and administration. plus I think Bob has been selling scooters to a few politicians and county admin types (not sure if he's aware of this or not..).

I did notice a "Moped Parking" sign at the UofM Bierman Building last summer, but this is better.

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Egan
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:28 pm  Reply with quote
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I think "motorscooters" is refering to under 49cc still but without the pedal which would make them "mopeds". I'll bet that the parking police will give a motorscooter displaying a MC license a ticket for parking at that rack.
The general public as well as the officals have a problem making that distinction. less than 49cc without pedals is a moterscooter (just small cc), a 49cc WITH pedals is a moped. But the license plate lumps the 2 together as "mopeds" and with that, any meter mama will easily see the plate on a over 49cc "motorscooter" MC plate and slap a ticket on ya. Oh I know you guys already know all this stuff it just kills me when someone tries to get all official about what is a "moped" and what is a motorscooter.

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433
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:44 pm  Reply with quote
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I wanna park the VNB with the sidecar there and see what happens!

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Brad
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:24 am  Reply with quote
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I parked there on Friday, next to a 150 piaggio. We'll see how this goes...

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Matty
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:42 pm  Reply with quote
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what would happen if you show up on this?

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/mcy/428374543.html

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Brad
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:33 pm  Reply with quote
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Does it have moped plates : )

Remember the MB5? I remember seeing them for sale for $300 new because dealers were trying to unload them. It would be pretty neat to have on now. http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Honda_MB50

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Matty
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:54 am  Reply with quote
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Someday I'll own a MB5 yamaha made something like that too.

So a Honda Helix, Silverwing, Burgman etc.. would be OK but a Ninja 250 wouldn't?

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nate
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:07 am  Reply with quote
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We don't talk about eny of those bikes on this board, so it doesn't matter.

Ninja 250. When does honda come out with the "Pirate 300"?
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Grant
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:40 am  Reply with quote
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I would like to think of all this as karma (finally giving some potential reward for owning scooters), but I know it would be more accurate to think of it as just another example of the inconsistencies that exist in the world about what a scooter actually is or is not. There continues to be a perception that “mopeds” (and 49cc or less scooters regulated for speeds generally less than 30 mph) should for some reason be given the same perks as bicycles. I see 2 potential reasons for this; neither of which end up making logical sense in the real world because of how they are (or are not) enforced.

First is that mopeds, etc. are somehow close enough to being environmentally friendly as to warrant special treatment. Yes, mopeds, etc. can get extremely good mileage. However, I would argue that only fully electric scooters are all that friendly. Most vehicles in the moped/small scoot range have two-stroke engines. Efficient yes, but not all that friendly from an emissions perspective since they spew burning oil as they go (no offense vintage crowd, I know some of you consider that as cologne). If the intention is to include environmentally friendly vehicles, I think it would only hold up to include much wider variety of vehicles; possibly even including a Ninja 250, and possibly excluding a lot of vintage anything. There is probably some reasonable calculation that could be determined that would allow the drawing of a virtual line between efficient and non-efficient (using a combination of fuel efficiency, emissions, etc.) but it would include so many factors as to most likely make it impossible to enforce. So what if we keep that designation as muddied as it already is.

The other reason that mopeds/small scoots seem to warrant exception is based on size. This could actually make a lot of sense, but governments seem to never approach the issue this way. It would certainly be easy. Come up with some measurements that are considered “small” and utilize a secondary designation (in addition to speed and engine size). You could include width, seat height, tire size, weight, etc. If your scooter is small enough, you get the perk of parking where bicycles do. Otherwise, no go. Wouldn’t this really serve the intended purpose in relation to where you are allowed to park?
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Tom Lindsay
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:54 am  Reply with quote
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Grant wrote:
I would like to think of all this as karma (finally giving some potential reward for owning scooters), but I know it would be more accurate to think of it as just another example of the inconsistencies that exist in the world about what a scooter actually is or is not. There continues to be a perception that “mopeds” (and 49cc or less scooters regulated for speeds generally less than 30 mph) should for some reason be given the same perks as bicycles. I see 2 potential reasons for this; neither of which end up making logical sense in the real world because of how they are (or are not) enforced.

First is that mopeds, etc. are somehow close enough to being environmentally friendly as to warrant special treatment. Yes, mopeds, etc. can get extremely good mileage. However, I would argue that only fully electric scooters are all that friendly. Most vehicles in the moped/small scoot range have two-stroke engines. Efficient yes, but not all that friendly from an emissions perspective since they spew burning oil as they go (no offense vintage crowd, I know some of you consider that as cologne). If the intention is to include environmentally friendly vehicles, I think it would only hold up to include much wider variety of vehicles; possibly even including a Ninja 250, and possibly excluding a lot of vintage anything. There is probably some reasonable calculation that could be determined that would allow the drawing of a virtual line between efficient and non-efficient (using a combination of fuel efficiency, emissions, etc.) but it would include so many factors as to most likely make it impossible to enforce. So what if we keep that designation as muddied as it already is.

The other reason that mopeds/small scoots seem to warrant exception is based on size. This could actually make a lot of sense, but governments seem to never approach the issue this way. It would certainly be easy. Come up with some measurements that are considered “small” and utilize a secondary designation (in addition to speed and engine size). You could include width, seat height, tire size, weight, etc. If your scooter is small enough, you get the perk of parking where bicycles do. Otherwise, no go. Wouldn’t this really serve the intended purpose in relation to where you are allowed to park?


Ah yes, but most cops are dumb. And most meter maids are dumber. Expecting them to use any kind of advanced reasoning beyond, "this has the wrong plates for this place" is really asking too much - especially since even that trips them up a lot of the time. And asking the DMV staff, who are quite possibly dumber still, to figure out what class they should be licensing a vehicle in, is even more problematic.

There's a Reflex that parks in the bike racks here every day. If his experience is anything like mine was, he'll get away with it for six months, and then suddenly he'll get five parking tickets in a week.

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Matty
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:16 am  Reply with quote
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Back when mopeds were pretty much the size of a bicycle it would make sense, but now when a 50cc cheap ass honda joker clone is bigger than some motorcycles it seems kinda dumb. I think every new 50cc scoot other than vino/metro are bigger than any P200.

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John B.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:06 pm  Reply with quote
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or this crazy idea. Bikes park at bike racks. Space for two wheeled parking should be part of any parking plan (sadly this is not done most of the time), usually this kind of parking area is accomplished by driving some bollards, that cars can't get through around a prime spot. You can then stuff as many two wheeled whatevers into it as will fit, scooter mc moped who cares! dose it have only 2 wheels? yes, then it belongs in the two wheel area. simple.
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Lisa
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:16 pm  Reply with quote
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[quote="Tom Lindsay"] And asking the DMV staff, who are quite possibly dumber still, to figure out what class they should be licensing a vehicle in, is even more problematic.
quote]

Unless of course they insist on issuing moped plates for a GS 150, then it is perfectly okay with me!
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