minnescoota.com Forum Index
Author Message
<  General Scootering  ~  Haven't been here in a while. Missed you guys
Harvey
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:35 pm  Reply with quote
Permit


Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 58

Derrick wrote:
Sorry Harvey, I have no idea what you are talking about.


I believe you.

Like someone was supposed to be offended by your comment about those who can participate in multiple groups being involved but only on a shallow level.

I have more to add but it will depend upon what you choose to say in reply.

Remember that I may not be against your opinion.

Harv
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Derrick
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:44 pm  Reply with quote
Licensed


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 771

Harvey,

I don't know you and I hate meeting people on line but... is this a test or what?

Just say what you want to say.

I am very opinionated and very involved with vintage Vespas and Lambrettas and their history. I also have a long history with the Regulars scooter club.

If you think you are as involved with vintage Italian scooters as I, great. I just have never met someone that can bridge all "two wheelers" with much depth. Prove me wrong.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Harvey
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:18 pm  Reply with quote
Permit


Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 58

Derrick wrote:
Harvey,

I don't know you and I hate meeting people on line but... is this a test or what?

Just say what you want to say.

I am very opinionated and very involved with vintage Vespas and Lambrettas and their history. I also have a long history with the Regulars scooter club.

If you think you are as involved with vintage Italian scooters as I, great. I just have never meet someone that can bridge all "two wheelers" with much depth. Prove me wrong.


My point is that if you peruse this site you will notice stuff posted here that has nothing to do with vintage scooters but alot to do with what's going on with Piaggio and other scooter related topics TODAY. The only thing I've read is that this club was started as a place for vintage owners and riders to come and be involved with.

What this means to me is two things:

First, this club started before the new Vespas were sold in the US. Hence the "Vintage" connotation. At the time there were no new Vespas available in the US when this site was born.

Second, by the founders' own design any visitor who views a few pages of this site comes away with the impression that the club, the rides, the entire character of this place, is to pay homage to the roots and history of the classic scooters.

If anything, my second point only goes as far as to seperate away the Chinese and Japanese type scooters ie the plastickee scooters. If you ask me, that's what I see when I look at a few pages of this site.

When the site started vintage was all there was of Vespa in the US. Contrast that with what they've been putting up [on the site] since its inception and you'll see your argument for what this site is about, crumbles.

The guys who made this site are promoting the current Vespa line, Derrick. I think you might be seeing only what you want to see.

I like old Vespas Derrick. I love to take anything old and challenging and make it run as new or better. I have an affinity for that sort of thing. I don't "bleed" any particular brand. Although at times people close to me would beg to differ. I ride for my own reasons and they have little to do with commonality, but do have to do with stuff that's no one else's business.

Harv
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
SS180
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:32 pm  Reply with quote
Training


Joined: 06 May 2006
Posts: 25

I'm new to Minneapolis, and thought I should refrain from the great debate about vintage vs. new, but I have to say I agree with the other vintage riders. And, some of you already know I have a really big mouth, so here goes...

I've owned and ridden vintage scooters for over 15 years. The vintage scooter scene (with all the usual exceptions) is bonded together not over only the bikes themselves, but a lifestyle that goes along with them. many of us have music, fashion, ideas, temperment, life outlooks, etc. in common. To say that new scooters and vintage scooters should just meld together into one scene is like telling a hardcore biker that he should take his Harley on rides with a bunch of crotch-rockets. It may not seem "open" when vintage riders don't want to ride with new scooters, but it goes way deeper than 2 wheels and an engine. I don't feel that I can explain it to people who don't get it themselves. There was a time not that long ago when plastic scooters were acquired just to burn at rallies. sorry, it's true. I think the waters were muddied first by Vespa bringing in new bikes, then by Stellas (vintage styling easily acquired). This opened the door to all sorts of scooters to start coming into what used to be a tight, closeknit group of riders who had tons in common beyond 2 wheels. I think it's great that people are enthusiastic and interested in riding, but I also resent those who want to acquire the cache of rallies easily. It used to be cool to see a mile of scooters go by because they were all so cool and old and uncommon. now, it's just a bunch of scooters in a row. Big deal.

So, I may be viewed as a dinosaur who is going to get left behind in the dust by the "new scene", but I'm ok with that. I did not sign on to ride with anyone with 2 wheels. That's not the scooter scene I got into. I will hang out with those I have more in common with than riding a group of vehicles all classified as "scooters". I'm not someone who rides a scooter, I'm a "scooterist."

I mean no offense to anyone here who rides new bikes, because I'm not here to start shit or insult anyone. I honestly am only on this board to read about vintage bikes and keep up with friends. The rest of the talk holds no appeal for me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Harvey
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:56 pm  Reply with quote
Permit


Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 58

SS180 wrote:
I'm new to Minneapolis, and thought I should refrain from the great debate about vintage vs. new, but I have to say I agree with the other vintage riders. And, some of you already know I have a really big mouth, so here goes...

I've owned and ridden vintage scooters for over 15 years. The vintage scooter scene (with all the usual exceptions) is bonded together not over only the bikes themselves, but a lifestyle that goes along with them. many of us have music, fashion, ideas, temperment, life outlooks, etc. in common. To say that new scooters and vintage scooters should just meld together into one scene is like telling a hardcore biker that he should take his Harley on rides with a bunch of crotch-rockets. It may not seem "open" when vintage riders don't want to ride with new scooters, but it goes way deeper than 2 wheels and an engine. I don't feel that I can explain it to people who don't get it themselves. There was a time not that long ago when plastic scooters were acquired just to burn at rallies. sorry, it's true. I think the waters were muddied first by Vespa bringing in new bikes, then by Stellas (vintage styling easily acquired). This opened the door to all sorts of scooters to start coming into what used to be a tight, closeknit group of riders who had tons in common beyond 2 wheels. I think it's great that people are enthusiastic and interested in riding, but I also resent those who want to acquire the cache of rallies easily. It used to be cool to see a mile of scooters go by because they were all so cool and old and uncommon. now, it's just a bunch of scooters in a row. Big deal.

So, I may be viewed as a dinosaur who is going to get left behind in the dust by the "new scene", but I'm ok with that. I did not sign on to ride with anyone with 2 wheels. That's not the scooter scene I got into. I will hang out with those I have more in common with than riding a group of vehicles all classified as "scooters". I'm not someone who rides a scooter, I'm a "scooterist."

I mean no offense to anyone here who rides new bikes, because I'm not here to start shit or insult anyone. I honestly am only on this board to read about vintage bikes and keep up with friends. The rest of the talk holds no appeal for me.


Now that did alot more for the explanation of why you and others prefer to be seperate from new scooter riders. Although I might disagree with you on the smaller issues about the music and such, but the point overall is fair.

Vintage scooter circles doesn't necessarily mean your examples will always be the case, its reasonable enough to have certain expectations. It seems that vintage scooters are possibly a seminal link to a lifestyle that almost presumes certain criteria in order to be accepted into the fold. In other words I might look forward to meeting or riding with you guys but you would most likely have no such interest in me. Despite the fact I own a vintage scooter. And this is only part of the equation!

I was hoping Derrick was going to put it into the words you did, as per my reply earlier on that I might not disagree with him lol.

Harv
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Egan
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:00 am  Reply with quote
Licensed


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 511

Oh this is a "club"? When did the invites go out? Did they take me as a member? If so they have very low standards. This was started a long time ago by a small group (before my rekindled interest) as a club but has morphed into more of a free for all. The people who showed up at the rally this year (most atleast) have little in common with what the original philosophy was. There are people who love to work on, study the history, and enjoy rideable art that feel defensive about trying to explain why they don't/did'nt want their "club" forcably expanded. Exclusiveness or atleast specificness is good. Todays world has gotten so out of hand about everyone having to be included in everything that people get offended if excluded. Do I have to invite everyone to everything? No. The TNR and other rides are good ideas and I went on some. If I broke down Dmarquis would have probably given me all the spark plugs I would have needed while wondering why I would WANT to ride something so unreliable. Some just won't understand and that is fine. I'd rather they did'nt get it, that's natural exclusiveness.

Finally I don't predicate who my friends are by what they ride but who they are, but they tend to ride vintage thats all.

_________________
средняя старая ванта
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
dmarquis
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:15 am  Reply with quote
Licensed


Joined: 28 Jun 2005
Posts: 812
Location: St. Paul MN USA

Quote:
If I broke down Dmarquis would have probably given me all the spark plugs I would have needed while wondering why I would WANT to ride something so unreliable.


Ha, ya I will pretty much try to help anyone out. No I wouldn't be thinking that Egan, as I love vintage rides. No I would be wondering why you hadn't gotten it figured out by the 3rd sparky. I am not down on anyone, just the tude...

Dave[/quote]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message   Visit poster's website
Harvey
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:35 am  Reply with quote
Permit


Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 58

I'm sorry, I mistakenly read a few pages here on the site. I must've taken the writing that this is a "club" into meaning that's what they meant.

Secondly, I also mistook, apparently by the imagery of both old bikes and new bikes on this website, that the people here rode scooters and were scooterists. Maybe that's not entirely true either. Apparently there are vintagers and there are scooterists.

If there are people from this group that I have the opportunity to ride with, I think that's great. Be there others who don't, no sweat.

I'm a scooterist. I also happen to have a vintage scooter.

Harv
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Egan
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:48 am  Reply with quote
Licensed


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 511

Maybe too literal.

_________________
средняя старая ванта
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Derrick
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:37 am  Reply with quote
Licensed


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 771

SS180, Thanks for your support. I have to meet you guys.

Harvey, I'm sorry you and many others don't understand what I am talking about. I don't think you guys will ever "get it".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Harvey
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:19 am  Reply with quote
Permit


Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 58

Derrick wrote:
SS180, Thanks for your support. I have to meet you guys.

Harvey, I'm sorry you and many others don't understand what I am talking about. I don't think you guys will ever "get it".


Maybe I get it more than you think. Maybe to me its somewhat of a repeating joke that I find this attitude with old scooters when I explained I'd seen it before with our one lasting American brand motorcycle. They take it further than vintagers do, trust me.

I "got it" long before scooters came onto my radar. In fact its part of the reason my other bikes are parked and the LX saw a thousand miles this month. Because, Derrick, you are more like me than you yourself can see. I gave you all the hints. I explained that I understood better than a few, what less than two hundred vintagers in the twin cities alone(?) thought was for them an exclusivity and devotedness to an era and a brand. I as much as said that the cost of being a vintager is not one the vintager begins to comprehend until after the vintager realizes he or she IS a vintager. So what if its a state of mind or a state of being?
I've been down this road before and it bores me.

What you need to realize is that this year the epa shut off the sales of two strokes in the US. Somewhere in the next five to ten years our epa guided govt is probably going to make two stroke scooters illegal to use on the road. Possibly with the exception of parades. For no other reason than political wrangling an entity not involved in the world of motorcycles is going to make a segment of devoted participants' machines obsolete for road use.

Had it not been for the epa's rulings which our govt obediantly followed, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Derrick, I prefer to ride Vespa. I would have been riding vintage but the writing's already on the wall. I don't have the room or an end table large enough to put my '64 GL on once that ten year window closes.

And I certainly am not giving up the ride just because the company and time has moved on.

There is nothing so complicated to GET Derrick. The bikes are pretty damn simple to work on, they ride and look great, they are totally unique and there's more maintenance than modern machines. Most importantly they came from the era you grew up in. The place you'd like to hold onto a little longer. SO WHAT???? Every generation does this. It doesn't make you or what you ride special. It just shows you appreciate the time and places you grew up in. Instead of just saying soemthing like that, you came off sounding like it meant something more.

I gave you every chance I could to explain to the readers what this whole vintage thing is about but you just played vague. Well there it is. Its about growing old and trying to hold yourself behind that one major change in your life that affected you and made you not want to step any further into the present. The world around you changed so dramatically, so abruptly that you made a conscious effort to remind yourself and others of what you believe was a better time.

If you think it was I can accept that.

Harv
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
some_dude
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:26 am  Reply with quote
Licensed


Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Posts: 300
Location: NE Minneapolis

Harvey wrote:
Its about growing old and trying to hold yourself behind that one major change in your life that affected you and made you not want to step any further into the present.

That's really fucking deep, man. Are you a hippie?


Last edited by some_dude on Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:28 am; edited 1 time in total

_________________
All Genghis Khan Scooter Club
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message [ Hidden ]
SS180
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:28 am  Reply with quote
Training


Joined: 06 May 2006
Posts: 25

Derrick wrote:
SS180, Thanks for your support. I have to meet you guys.


no problem, and I can't believe we haven't met already! It's time to get the party (re)started around here! :)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
chris
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:33 am  Reply with quote
Licensed


Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 481
Location: Minnesnapplepuss

Harvey, I'm so glad you could come back to the "scene" and tell us all what it means to be a "scooterist". As for the epa stuff, your not the only one with comunications to the outside world. We are all watching that stuff pretty closely. Thanks for your imput. Vintage enthusiasts like myself are very atuned to this sort of thing. And as far as I can see that is the only argument here. Why do you insist on dragging this thing out as far as you have. Sounds to me like you just want an "internet fight". If that's the case then Derrick has already won. Go back to the sticks and ride your scooter. There will always be differences ie... Harley's, crotch rockets, goldwings, new scooters, old scooters, but to argue on the internet is like puting a screendoor on a submarine. Damnit now you got me using my dad's language...

End.

Chris

_________________
chicken hooblers! Yum.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message [ Hidden ]
Harvey
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:41 am  Reply with quote
Permit


Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 58

some_dude wrote:
Harvey wrote:
Its about growing old and trying to hold yourself behind that one major change in your life that affected you and made you not want to step any further into the present.

That's really fucking deep, man. Are you a hippie?


pfff Yeah right.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message  
Display posts from previous:   
All times are GMT - 6 Hours

View next topic
View previous topic
Page 5 of 7
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
minnescoota.com Forum Index  ~  General Scootering

Post new topic   Reply to topic


 
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB and NoseBleed v1.09