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Derrick
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 10:48 am  Reply with quote
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Hey Jeff,

I'm just wondering. Why call it a "Stella owners group" when any scooter can ride with the group? I understand you don't want to be a snob but isn't your "Stella owners group" just a general scooter club then?

I find this whole "scooter club" thing very confusing. I thought "clubs" were for defined and limited segment of the public. Somehow it became narrow minded and snobish to have an exclusive club. I don't get it. Having an exclusive club does not mean that there is a "right" scooter to ride and a "wrong" scooter to ride. It's just that people choose to ride something and get together with others who ride the same thing.

I believe in exclusive clubs. I am not narrow minded and I don't think I am a snob.
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Egan
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:40 pm  Reply with quote
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Hey Derrick, Not trying to speak for Jeff but this came about from the Stella Speed site (man that site is really starting to SUCK) anyway there were a bunch of people from Minneapolis/St Paul posting and Jeff and a few others thought it would be cool to meet and discuss all the different modifications people have been doing to the Stella. I think the term "club" was used not as an official thing just a phrase. I am very much in agreement with you that a club IS an exclusive an entitled product with many responsabilities that go along with it. I get kinda of a kick outta the people who are upset and say that it is exclusionary to have a club when thats the very definition. I mean come on I am my own club right? Thats how much of a snob I am.

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Derrick
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 2:38 pm  Reply with quote
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Thanks Egan.

I just feel this wave of exclusivity bashing behind all the chatter. Have you been to the Min-max "club" discusion board lately? Not that I go there much but Adam D. just posted a link to it on the original Regulars discusion board and I went just for kicks. Mojo's "historical perspective" is an attack on "narrow minded" motorcycle riders and their desire to remain in independant groups. I know that Mojo is a Liberal hippy but it seems that alot of people chime in support or don't say anything. This would not bother me much but it seems they are definetly moving into the vintage scooter world using this logic as justification. In my mind they have no place in a "Vintage" scooter club. How can someone who drives a 650 Burgman relate to a vintage Vespa rider? Not by their choice of rides! I don't want to "rumble" with them. I don't want to make them feel bad. I don't want to call them names or spit in their faces. I just want the vintage scooter club to remain vintage.

Oh well. I would like a picture of Adam D. riding his 650 Burgman down the street with the Stella owners group. (or his Bajaj for that matter!)
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Jeff
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 5:46 pm  Reply with quote
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It's not a club. It's mostly just an excuse for Egan, Stephen and me to talk about recent kitting and customization, have a beer and go for a ride. I didn't want to shut out other P series people or tuned ET4s or whatever, but I didn't think Burgman or Bajaj owners would be too interested. My inclusivity may have gone a bit too far. Thanks for calling me on that and I am going to fix it right now.
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Egan
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 6:29 pm  Reply with quote
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Well put Derrick. I joined the Serveterans SC (really just some funny guys), and they only allow the Spanish made Lambretta Servetas, now thats excelusive is'nt it? Well the Mojos and Maxes can include anyone they want and if the feel bad and/or left ou for not being included in something thats their problem really. I don't WANT to be included in their thing, I mean what would I have to say about the Bergmans or any other cruiser, I think they are neat and stuff but not my mug of beer. I think the Rally can and probably should include the scootering community as a whole to show the diversity of the "scooter", but I really feel a more focused core vintage or kitted, or spanish, or what ever, contingent could be more focused and informative than a diluted mass of many heads and ideas. As I said before being a member means you put a stake into the idea weather its time, money, organizing etc. I look forward to Beckys next "Vintage Ride" and The Kitted gang, etc. It sounds like it could be a fun summer.

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nate
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:20 am  Reply with quote
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Does tephen have a Stella, or just Work on them? is he close to getting a bike again, or am I just late on that?

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Jeff
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:56 am  Reply with quote
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Different Stephen.
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Egan
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:45 am  Reply with quote
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Well there is Steven (sp?) at SV and Steve that has the green Stella w/red vinyl. I'm think Jeff is thinking of the later.

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Jeff
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:25 am  Reply with quote
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Exactly
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Adam
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 11:16 am  Reply with quote
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Derrick wrote:
I just feel this wave of exclusivity bashing behind all the chatter. Have you been to the Minn-Max "club" discussion board lately? Not that I go there much but Adam D. just posted a link to it on the original Regulars discussion board and I went just for kicks. Mojo's "historical perspective" is an attack on "narrow minded" motorcycle riders and their desire to remain in independent groups. I know that Mojo is a Liberal hippy but it seems that a lot of people chime in support or don't say anything. This would not bother me much but it seems they are definitely moving into the vintage scooter world using this logic as justification. In my mind they have no place in a "Vintage" scooter club. How can someone who drives a 650 Burgman relate to a vintage Vespa rider? Not by their choice of rides! I don't want to "rumble" with them. I don't want to make them feel bad. I don't want to call them names or spit in their faces. I just want the vintage scooter club to remain vintage.

Oh well. I would like a picture of Adam D. riding his 650 Burgman down the street with the Stella owners group. (or his Bajaj for that matter!)



Great post, Derrick. (Adam_D. from the old board here.) Your post opens up so many topics to discuss. If I may, I’d like to provide some my thoughts to the concepts quoted above. Forgive me if I am a bit verbose, I want to be thorough for all who might read this post.


RELATING TO VINTAGE RIDERS
Just for the record, I do have an affinity for vintage scooters and I appreciate what those of you do to restore and keep these magnificent machines on the road. So even though I don't choose to expend the effort of own one, I can relate to a vintage Vespa rider. Perhaps not in everything, but certainly in their love of these glorious pieces of engineering and design.


DIFFERENT STROKES FOR DIFFERENT FOLKS
Mojo, myself, and undoubtedly others do believe there can and should be a camaraderie between fellow two-wheel motorists, be they motorcyclist, scooterists, or even maxiscooterists. While the experience of what you ride has different nuances, there are also many similar factors.

That being said, I think there is indeed room for different groups which focus on specific interests. Certainly, my founding of a maxiscooter riding group bears that out. From my reading of your posts, Derrick, I sense you would agree that mutual respect and diversity in scooterdom is a good thing.


HOW WE GOT HERE
The Regulars, though started as, is still labeled as, and perhaps was always intended to be a vintage scooter club. However, the Minnescoota description of The Regulars SC says, and I quote:
    "Membership is currently free, but our one and only requirement is a love for vintage scooters. Our goal is to gather often, enjoy good health and ride in mass as the gods intended."
Also, for as long as I've been aware of The Regulars SC, which was back in 1998, it has welcomed or at least allowed non-vintage scooters to join their rides. I know as I had asked Jeremy back then if I could join them on rides with my Honda Elite 250. (Which is why I also considered myself as a semi-irregular Regular.)

In my opinion, it is these gracious policies, along with an increase in interest in scooters and the influx of modern scooters that has lead to The Regulars become more and more like a general scooter club. This may not have been the intent, but it sure seems like the results.


GOING FORWARD
So here we are in 2005 with a vintage scooter club that has grown in size and diversity to the point that at least some folks long for smaller, more focused groups. Meanwhile, others wanting to continue to have rides open to all. I don’t think these two points really are mutually sustainable in the current format and if not addressed will probably lead to hard feelings that everyone wishes to avoid. At the risk of suffering the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or at least pissed off scooterists, I believe that The Regulars has reached critical mass and is ripe to officially break into smaller groups.

Yes, I said it.

Looking at where scooterdom in Minnesota is today and where it is going, I believe that the scooter community will be best served if the following happens.
  1. The Regulars returns to its vintage scooter roots, giving a place with those whose love of scootering is focused on the classic machines.
  2. That other scooter group forms based on there specific interests, be they modern, a certain engine displacement, or by manufacturer.
  3. That the groups work together, perhaps under the auspices of “The State Of Minnescoota” website, to deliberately plan rides to avoid conflicting times when possible. (Odds are that there will be some folks who are part of more than one group, like Mojo is now with Minn-Max and The Regulars.)
  4. That out of mutual respect each group look to hold at least some open rides and events throughout the year.
  5. That the Skooter Du rally remain an event that brings all of us who love scooters together.

EPILOGUE
I’m not trying to “break up The Regulars”. However, this topic has been touched on before, skirted around, railed against, blatantly ignored, and sometime shouted from the roof tops. I think that as long as we can treat each other in a civil, mature, and reasonable fashion, we should be able to discuss the pros and the cons without anyone take it as a slight or snobbery. If we work together with respect, we should be able to do what we all want to do. That is to enjoy our scooters and have a good time with great people.


Okay, done now. It is only my opinion, yours may vary. Oh, and I'd be happy to "pose" for pictures of my Burgman riding with the souped up Stellas. It would be a gas.

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Derrick
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 12:21 pm  Reply with quote
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I agree with you Adam.

But now that everyone has access here, let me make a couple more comments.

I have had the fortunate chance to be around when "The Regulars" first started. We were not the first scooter club in town and we definetly won't be the last. But we did have an amazingly cool group in the begining. The members were very independant minded people that had ONE thing in common - vintage scooters. Almost everyone could discuss in detail the operating principals of their vintage bikes and the work it takes to keep them running. It was a very binding, unique and exciting experience. One that I don't think I will experience again. But, the point I'm am trying to make is I don't think strictly new scooters riders could possibly understand this fully. Most have no clue. Some have no desire to understand. IMO that is why an exclusive vintage club is required. New and old scooters are really in two different worlds. Their owners may be as well.

Also, a comment to Will. I regret my labeling of you but when I made the comment I was thinking you would actually agree. I also felt that it was a fair point, being that you seem to let your views be known. Although I may see somethings differently, I did not mean it in a negative way. I respect your point of view and hope you do not take it the wrong way.

Thanks, Derrick
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Brad
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 8:40 am  Reply with quote
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Quote:
I have had the fortunate chance to be around when "The Regulars" first started. We were not the first scooter club in town and we definetly won't be the last. But we did have an amazingly cool group in the begining. The members were very independant minded people that had ONE thing in common - vintage scooters. Almost everyone could discuss in detail the operating principals of their vintage bikes and the work it takes to keep them running.


That was pretty unique. I got my old Vespa 50 as a gift and immediately discovered that it was a bit slow. I learned a lot about scooters, parts, and repair from that group by just dropping in to listen to advice before their rides.

I have mixed feelings about the whole vintage, classic, T'ng and Maxi thing. I like to try to be a "nice guy" and advocate for inclusion. But I think that strong communities are built around shared interests.

So I think that all of these exclusive rides are a good thing. Anybody could have one if they want to organize. At the end of the day, it all promotes scootering.

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Becky W.
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 9:35 am  Reply with quote
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I've been biting my tongue, because my perspective is kinda weird. I dunno if I even dare say what I think, but it might be worth sharing.......so......

1. Something we're forgetting: Essentially, Wilker started the whole "Regulars" thing. As far as I understand, he started the Website, and wrote the "creed" stating that it was a vintage scooter club. He then added to the creed that new scooters were welcome. THEN after some time I came to understand he started a "secret" message board that was totally exclusive and only allowed a few of you guys as members - that was supposedly what THIS message board has now become. Now he's opened this forum up as the new board. Now, I know scooterists don't just exist on the Internet, and Wilker isn't the God of Scooters in this town or whatever, but I do think he has a lot to answer for. I'd like to know what he thinks of all this, since he essentially started it.

2. Clubs clubs clubs clubs clubs. Who cares. I think the way to go is to simply organize RIDES for certain kinds of SCOOTERS, not CLUBS for certain kinds of PEOPLE. I say this because of my observation that for many of us, the only things we REALLY have in common are the SCOOTERS. And scooters are meant to be RIDDEN. Vintage owners in this town are a nice bunch for sure, but probably not my best friends I'll go to the movies with or whatever. (Well with the exception of at least one ;o)! I think the idea of "clubs" needs to go away.

Just organize RIDES.
Lots of 'em. It's not hard. Pick a date, time, and route, gather up an e-mail list, post up a message on the board, show up and hope for the best. Works for me. I'm not a snob and couldn't give a shit about exclusivity, I just like to ride my vintage scooter and DON'T like riding it with a bunch of Vinos and Kymcos. I just don't. Nothing against Vinos and Kymcos or the people who have them - I just don't wanna ride next to 'em. It's more fun to be amongst your own kind, yeah?

Someone do a tuned-only RIDE, someone do a Lambretta-only RIDE, someone do a Stella-only RIDE, someone do a Spree-only RIDE, someone do a shitbox-only RIDE, someone do a Vino-only RIDE, and so on, and let's let the "Regulars" be the common meeting ground for all. If at the RIDES people hang out and talk and have things in common, cool. Just quit with the "club" thing because it forces some kind of "social" connotation that isn't real conducive to RIDING.

3. Which brings me to the rally. Make the rally a micro-cosm of this. Everyone is welcome to help organize and all kinds of scooters are welcome at the rally. But at the rally itself, someone do a vintage group ride, a tuned group ride, a Stella group ride, and so on. Rally goers can then ride with the scooters they want to ride with or tell us to go to hell, but at least you're not forcing Mr. Vino to ride along next to Ms. Lambretta.

OK I'll shut up now!
Sorry my 2 cents tuned into 50 cents!

Bx

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Matty
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 10:12 am  Reply with quote
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Becky W. wrote:

1. Something we're forgetting: Essentially, Wilker started the whole "Regulars" thing.

THEN after some time I came to understand he started a "secret" message board that was totally exclusive and only allowed a few of you guys as members - that was supposedly what THIS message board has now become.

But at the rally itself, someone do a vintage group ride, a tuned group ride, a Stella group ride, and so on. Rally goers can then ride with the scooters they want to ride with or tell us to go to hell, but at least you're not forcing Mr. Vino to ride along next to Ms. Lambretta. Bx


Just want to point out a few things.

Chris Orr started the Regulars and Jeremy came up with the web site.

There was no evil intentions of the "secret" board, Jeremy wanted to test out the new program so we did, nothing more nothing less. Yes there was talk of a differnt vintage and modern board too. Not sure what the big deal is about that, unless it bad for friends to have a place to talk.

Twice I've asked for someone to lead a "non big fast ride to Afton" for the slower bikes or those who just want to do a city run, and not one single person has offered. I'll ask again but I doubt it'll happen. Rally planning is open to everyone but there aren't that many people who want to help, or actually do help. Yes it would be cool to have tons of people involved but it never happens. Every year it comes down to 5 people or so doing everything. If you regularly go to the rides and check out the web site you should be involved, that's where making it a "real" club would make a difference, to be a member you need to help with the rally. Trish is already done with it and after this year so am I.

-Matt
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Becky W.
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 10:30 am  Reply with quote
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I never said there were any "evil intentions" about the "secret" message board or that it was "bad" to have a "place for friends to talk". Sheesh, dude. I couldn't give a crap if a couple of you were beta-testing a new forum or had a secret shit-talking club. I was only stating the history of what we have here as I know it - some of which is based on what other people told me (who weren't supposed to tell me, which is likely the reason you seem upset).

Chris Orr may have "started the Regulars" but who came up with:

The Regulars Vintage Scooter Club for the Minnesota (Twin Cities) area
If you have a Vespa, Lambretta, Bajaj, Aprilia, Italjet, Malaguti, Derbi, Kymco or other scooter, join us!

And if you want a ride to Afton so bad, and no one answers when you "ask" someone to lead it, why not lead it yourself?

Not enough interested parties in helping to organize a rally? People getting frustrated and not wanting to do it anymore? How about NO RALLY then?

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